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Ray
I know this was covered some where on the site, but for the life of me I just don't recall where.  When studying a score sheet to decide on bowing how do know whether it needs to be in third position?  My best quests is you decide based upon tone Colorado the strings and ease of fingering.  Wondering if there are other considerations ?  Thanks for any thoughts.
Ray
9 Responses
Posted: January 11, 2019
Last Comment: January 12, 2019
Replies

Ray
Posted: January 12, 2019
Thank you Kody for the link.

Oh Elke,  I had completely forgot about that cool chart you made.  I will have a good look at it today.  Thanks.

Elke Meier
Posted: January 12, 2019
Ray, also check the fingering chart for all keys I made a long time ago (in the Practice and Performance section of the Resources). I also made a short introductory video to show how it works. When I have to find out which position would work best in a certain section I normally use this little chart. 

Kody Morgan
Posted: January 12, 2019
Here's a chart that lists all the fingerings from positions 1-7 that might help you out

https://www.violinonline.com/fingeringchart-advanced.html

Ray
Posted: January 11, 2019
Thanks Kody,  Piano Sonata No.14 is the first piece for me to shift.  I certainly will be taking many notes from Beth's videos.  Measure 35 is where the shift will occur.  What the heck life is adventure.

Ray
Posted: January 11, 2019
Thanks Dianne for checking into that for me.  Found another version of Piano Sonata No.14 and this one was transposed into F Major.  So only one flat.  There will still be a spot where I will have to shift.  Well I did say there would be a learning curve.  :)

Kody Morgan
Posted: January 11, 2019
I remember asking my teacher this exact question a few weeks ago when I first started learning 3rd position. The short answer is use the fingerings that sound best and are easiest for you to play the piece well. Some people will take the same piece of music and play it with different fingerings or positions based on what is best for them. 

A few things to keep in mind though that may help you decide whether to shift or not: first, you would obviously have to shift if there are any notes high enough that you can't play in first position. If your highest note is something like a high C on the E string, you could either choose to extend 4th finger to hit it or shift up based on whats best for you. Generally, if you have only 1 or 2 notes that fit that criteria and the notes are somewhat fast, it would make more sense to stay in your position and just extend. 

Also try to be aware of string crossings that could make a section very difficult. You may find that a section has 3 or 4 string crossings and moving up positions could reduce or eliminate the need to cross strings. The tone or mood of the piece also matters, for example if you have a melody that you've been playing that includes an open string; you would need to determine if you should use your 4th finger or shift. Open strings, especially the E tend to have a brighter sound and it can clash pretty badly in certain pieces if you've been using fingered notes the whole way through.

The more you play pieces with shifting you will start to develop your own method of choosing when to shift that sounds the best for you and is easiest to play. I'm still working on this as well but it's already much easier for me to decide when to shift compared to a few weeks ago.

Dianne
Posted: January 11, 2019
Hi Ray, Looking at the notes of that key, and then at the notes on the fingerboard, I think a good position for it would be 2nd position when you wanted to shift. Just a guess.

C#m= C♯, D♯, E, F♯, G♯, A, B

Ray
Posted: January 11, 2019
Thanks Dianne I am picking up the score sheets for one of the pieses I am learning to meet my year goal, Piano Sonata No.14 No.2  in C#minor Op.27 No.2 for violin.  And will be working on the bowings this afternoon.

Thanks for the advice.

Dianne
Posted: January 11, 2019
When to Shift
Hi Ray, I don't know for sure which tutorials might cover this in general, but I've been taking notes along the way and noticing things in scale and arpeggio work. If you have a scale and arpeggio book you are working from, you can see which keys in arpeggios provide which fingerings to get an idea. Also, from discussions here, certain keys lend themselves well to certain positions (listed below). Then there is the sound of the open string, whether that is appropriate or not for a passage. Then there are the notes following and preceding, and picking a spot that is timely for the shift. I work w/my teacher always for these but last year I became more confident all of a sudden to mark my ideas for the shifts and start trying things out. I noticed that tone color told me right away if it was a good idea or not, but also there are still many shifts that I still do not see the reason (yet). :).

Key G D A 3rd
Key Ab Db 4th
Key FM CM 2nd

Hope this helps