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Eileen
In this video towards the end you mention about having to adjust the placement of the first finger on E depending on what you're playing. I usually have a difficult time finding that note because it never seems to be in the same place. I can tell when I'm off with just about every other note (most of the time) but that one frustrates me...I just can't seem to hear it right. I always thought it had something to do with my hearing issues, and maybe it does because I also have more difficulty tuning the E to A string for some reason. I can hear the pitches come together with G,D...D,A but I'm always second guessing myself with A,E and usually grab my electronic tuner to double check. Is this just an issue with me that I need to find a "fix" for, or could it have something to do with what you were talking about concerning the "just" intonation ? Great videos BTW ! ;-)

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Eileen
12 Responses
Posted: October 29, 2011
Last Comment: November 3, 2011
Replies

Eileen
Posted: November 3, 2011
Patricia, what a great idea playing  the tones as you drive your car ! 

Thanks Simon for that link.  I listened to those explanations and I too was amazed at just how many adjustments one has to make when you play a group of strings together.  I've never had the pleasure of experiencing playing in such a group....but wow.. I had no idea !  I suppose one gets to a level where all that happens automatically without much thought....or does it ?  I think I remember Beth mentioning how she and the others in her group spend much time playing notes slowly until they all find their "spot" and they're all in tune together.....when working on a new piece. 

Jo, I know what you mean about tuning the E with A in 5ths....that's where it takes me awhile and then I go and double check with the tuner because I'm never really sure I've got it.   Very annoying....but I AM glad it's not just me ! 




jojo
Posted: November 1, 2011
Funny 

I don't have ANY problems in pitching the E, I could just tune the E separately no problem, I can find an E on D string, on G string, on A string, on E string (an octave or 2 higher and I am ok with that.

the problem I have is tuning the E IN FIFTHS together with the A! Not sure I was explaining myself clearly initially when I sympathising with Eileen! LOL  But even then it is only a very minor problem as 70% of the time I'll be 'spot on' and the other 30% I'll end up with an E very slightly sharp or flat.


Patricia
Posted: October 31, 2011

Thank you Simon for the link to an interesting information. I never before saw these videos in reference to Intonation while visiting this site. If for an String Quartet you have to do so many adjustments, Can you imagine the person(s) willing to put together an orchestra? I believe in an orchestra they use the oboe for the others musicians to tune their instrument accordingly. Is this correct?

About the E-note on A-string not sounding right, perhaps we need to do some adjustment due to (complex) intonationís matters. We also have to consider that comparing to others fingers, usually the pinky is weak and difficult to separate from the 3rd finger no matter where on the fingerboard and not only for the wide stretch on this particular E-note.

Patricia


Shelly ~ South Carolina
Posted: October 31, 2011
This is a very interesting thread!  I too have a problem with getting the pitch just right on the E string.  Nice to know I'm not alone!! :-)

Beth Blackerby
Posted: October 31, 2011
Thanks for sharing that link, Simon.  That is an excellent discussion and clears up the difference between Pythagorean, just and equal temperament. I have never used, nor did any of my teachers, use the term Pythagorean. I have always called it the linear or melodic system, and vertical or harmonic system.  But, I had been thinking that they were both a result of the quirky Just intonation system, which stood in sharp contrast to the equal temperament system. See, you're always learning!

Simon
Posted: October 30, 2011
For some definitions and examples of intonation systems, take a look at the Kurt Sassmannhaus videos on the subject: http://www.violinmasterclass.com/intonation.php.  I think that will help expand on the 'can of worms' Beth didn't want to open, but maybe explains what Eileen is experiencing.

For myself, I have a particular problem with the note E - whether its 4th finger in first position, 2nd finger in 3rd or whatever, I really struggle to hear that note in tune and am constantly checking with the open E.  The octave below and above are fine, its just fourth-space E that's a problem!  Not sure how to shake it....


Patricia
Posted: October 30, 2011

Hi!

Iím glad to here from Eileen, Jojo, and Simon, Shelly (in others thread) back and active in VL Community again. I was missing you all and I wish some more members participate in this community.

I like to read the questions, solutions, new findings &/or problems that others may have because I learn a lot from their comments, including those at the very beginners level. Sometimes someone mention a thing that I was not aware before, then I check if I have the same problem, if so, it is nice to find the solution.

Eileen and Jojo for now when tuning my violin I use the tuner, but I believe it will help us to find the E-note after the A-note by singing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star because of the same interval. By the way, I do this after tuning to double check if there are a perfect fifth between the strings.

The lady from the store where my luthier works gave me a tone-player with the G-D-A-E sounding notes to attach to my key chain, so while Iím driving, I play the A or E pitch and try it to imitate the sound (people in the cars around me probably think Iím crazy, but nobody knows who am I anyway) then at home with my tuner I sing the notes, which I may say, A and E notes are in the range but not exactly in the green light. G and D notes are yet to be processed. Perhaps someday I will distinguish all possible intervals and not depend so much on a tuner or any other device.

Patricia


Eileen
Posted: October 29, 2011
Thanks Jo, I do feel better knowing that....  :-)

jojo
Posted: October 29, 2011
it's not just you Eileen, I also have a lot more difficulty tuning the E!!!

I think it takes A LOT longer to get used to that one! it will come I keep telling myself....my teacher has no problems with it but I remind myself he's been playing violin for 'only' 65 years! hehe  (about 60 years and 3 months longer than me!) :D

Eileen
Posted: October 29, 2011
Thanks Beth....so it isn't just me...that's comforting !

On the paragraph issue,
When I respond with the "reply to discussion" box to a post the paragraphs show up.  It's when I clicked on the "community discussion" box next to the video that the paragraphs went missing.   

Beth Blackerby
Posted: October 29, 2011
The paragraph function seems to be working for me..hmmm.

Anyway, I agree that tuning the E is harder. I think in general we don't perceive high frequencies as accurately as mid frequencies. Think about where our speaking voice is. Probably for women, around the D string. 

Eileen
Posted: October 29, 2011
A "technical" observation......

When I typed out this question I made separate paragraphs but it posted without them.  When you post a question right from the video I guess you need to use the <p> symbol for paragraphs.....or maybe there's something you can tweak to remedy that.