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Elke Meier
I have a fingering question for Beth (or others who are familiar with this). As I said, I will use Beth's new practice instructions on a piece that is a bit over my head. When she introduced the second step I noticed two things:

1. I definitely need to put in finger numbers over the notes - not at some point, but now!
2. This step looks like it can be a real help in one of my long time problems: bad coordination between left and right hand. At one point not so long ago I noticed that the coordination normally suffers because the left hand is not quite sure what comes next. So there is this split second of hesitancy between looking at the note and translating it to left hand action - whereas the right hand is much surer of itself and its tasks and jumps ahead. 

So I really, really look forward to delving into this second step! However, as I put the finger numbers over my piece (second movement of Telemann Fantasy #9) I noticed just how much this actually is over my head: There were many places where I wasn't even sure what good fingering would be. Could you please look at my shifts. Do they make sense? Here is my reasoning for some of them: 
Measure 10: I do not want to have an open string at the end of the measure. However, I cannot imagine jumping from a first finger on the E-string to a fourth finger on the G-string.
About measures 52-55 I feel very insecure. The reason why I even need to shift there is that those stretches kill me: first from G# to A# (I just can't do that stretch in tune), then from A# to E (I don't want an open E there - or should I just put up with this?). 

Since the image here is normally quite reduced I placed a scan of my fingerings in my dropbox: Telemann Fantasy #9 2nd movement


Elke Meier
12 Responses
Posted: February 12, 2018
Last Comment: February 14, 2018
Replies

Elke Meier
Posted: February 14, 2018
Here is my current sheet.


Elke Meier
Posted: February 14, 2018
Yes, Sonia, I changed those to third position after Beth's little instruction video where she said that double string crossings during slurs won' t work. That is what makes it easier because they are exactly the same fingerings. 

I should post my current sheet again. I'll see whether I can snatch a minute at the scanner today - it is too marked up already (and still missing marks...) to show well on a photograph.

Sonia Lancaster
Posted: February 13, 2018
Hi Elke, I've just put fingering on those places too and find it easier now. I use the same fingering for both 14-16 and 40-42, in 3rd position just a string further over, not sure if this is easier then your fingers only need to remember one set of fingering not 2. I also just write the changing fingers down not the "1" since that doesn't change in this sequence.

Elke Meier
Posted: February 13, 2018
Wow, for me step 2 has already paid off! I always write all the bowing marks in my music but I have never written in finger numbers (apart from a few places after shifting to remind myself) because I felt, well, I know which finger plays this note. Why bother? But now I have marked special all the notes where the same finger plays two notes after each other. This piece is just FULL of them! And I find that that reduces the surprise moment when I realize: upps, that is a fifth again, I better jump over! And since the half-step distances of the fingers are also marked I feel it really makes a difference in security. Haha, I should not talk about surprise "moment" as everything is SOOO slow right now - I guess I play it at about 40bmp - grave instead of vivace :), but I can see that this method will help me anticipate the surprise "moments" once they really become only moments.

And I made another exciting discovery: I noticed that I need to learn the pattern in measure 14-16 only once. Before I had seen two areas with this kind of pattern (measure 40-42 is the second) and was fearing them both. But after adding the fingering I realized that they are exactly the same - just a quint lower! And that I can leave down the first finger for a good part of them, so there is not really much that the left hand has to do any more... 



Sonia Lancaster
Posted: February 13, 2018
Just another observation, I find if I play something lots, I start to memorise and I think actually memorising that part frees you from the music, so you are more free to feel, listen etc rather than worry about reading the music. 

The hardest part for me is the last chord, which coincidently is the same as the last chord in the second piece. I have difficulty sharing my second finger between the two strings. I can play the last chord in the second piece though and the only difference is the approach.... the only difference is the first has a G on the approach so I think it must be this finger that changes my hand shape and throws me off. I just spotted that so will explore that idea more tonight.

The second is faster, but many of them are runs so not too bad :)

Elke Meier
Posted: February 13, 2018
Yes, Dianne, his is probably my favorite interpretation of all the ones I have seen. Andrew Manze comes close though :).

Sonia, that was what I had been thinking also as Beth introduced these practice videos. In my desperation of getting a handle on the double stop section I did basically very similar steps: first I tried to play it as it is - haha, that was so pitiful, you can't describe it! Then I decided to play just the melody to get the fingering and intonation of the intervals of the high notes right. That was not so difficult, but as soon as I added the double stops all went out the window again. Then I realized that if I just played the melody my hand shape was completely different. So I started to play the melody but concentrated on what came before and after and how this note would relate to the ones around it - and I hovered with the finger over the tritone! That helped. But my fingers are so slow in reacting. I wonder whether it has to do with the general health of them. I used to be able to trill without problems. Even that is difficult lately. I is as if I have to give them a conscious command: okay, it is time to trill! So right now I am doing this super slow practice where I consciously sort the order of movements. Tonight will be the first time I can practice since Friday so I will see whether anything is still there... 

The second movement I attempt with the new practice routine, but since it is fast I really don't know whether I can do it. I will see. At least I can try. If I wouldn't try I would never find out whether there is a chance that it might work :)

Dianne
Posted: February 13, 2018
Hi Sonia, Yes! Because you and other advanced players are on here helping us, I can't believe the information that can sometimes be found in no other way than the experience of advanced players and their teachers.

Elke, I know you have probably seen many videos and probably this one already, but the sound in this one is so far my favorite on YT. What I like is that it is exquisitely played with some shifts. I find myself just listening and not so much watching the hands, although his left hand looks to be very quiet.

Sonia Lancaster
Posted: February 13, 2018
I find with the first movement double stops it really helps do do what we are doing in the exercise with Beth now. Stop at each one and really feel the finger placement and their relation to each other. I also marked my copy with the pitch intervals which seemed to cement it. I think that the first movement is more difficult than the second due to the double stops. The second movement itís the speed thatís the issue :)

Elke Meier
Posted: February 12, 2018
Thank you so much, Sonia! You certainly were right with your observations!

And yes, if I live long enough you might hear me play this at some point :). Actually, the first movement I already like a lot. It does start to sound nice - apart from the tritone double stop section. That one really is killing me... I have disected that, played it a hundred different ways, but when I put it back together for the double stops the intonation goes out the window and it gets so bad that it wrecks the rest of the piece. One day... 

Sonia Lancaster
Posted: February 12, 2018
Hi Elke
Thanks for asking this and Beth to answering, I was pleased to see I do what Beth suggests. In Baroque I donít shy away from open strings, they give a lovely resonance to the piece. Also, I believe they didnít use other positions as much as we do today, they tended to stick with 1st position. I have briefly looked at your fingering and see you have a couple of differences to what I do.

The very last bar you have the lower note as 0 but this is a B not an open G. The last triplet of bar 58 you have 1,0, 1 are you trying to use 1st finger in 3rd position for just one note, the G? I would use a 3rd and stay in 1st position.

I also noticed from watching videos that they play a harmonica in bar 27 for the A which gives a lovely ring and isnít too hard to do.

I love these pieces, would love to see/hear you play them.

Sonia

Elke Meier
Posted: February 12, 2018
Thank you so much! That was most instructive!!

Beth Blackerby
Posted: February 12, 2018
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