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Dianne
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Please let me know if you have found any resources to direct me to, or have any ideas to help me. I have found nothing specific to my issue on the web or in books. On this blog, one student had this problem and was instructed to lower their hand- it was too upright. My hand is not like that.
Dianne
11 Responses
Posted: December 6, 2017
Last Comment: December 10, 2017
Replies

Dianne
Posted: December 10, 2017
I meant to say thank you for all of your suggestions and help, everyone.

Thank you, Beth. It is good to know that I am on the right track and should not give up. Thank you so much.

This weekend, I worked on having more of a backwards angle to my left hand, so that I am starting with more of the pad of the fingers, training in relaxation into the whole arm. It feels a lot more backwards than it looks. Immediately, there is no movement in the forearm. Two Springs ago, I posted a video because the 2nd finger had a problem of being too upright for vibrato. That is essentially the problem I am having now. This new hand position will help me to retrain the muscles to relax and disengage the forearm. I have found that everything I have learned about vibrato is all true, it's just a matter of putting all the bits together in a way that works for me.

Vayia UK
Posted: December 8, 2017
Maybe you should find an assistant and try this?

Beth Blackerby
Posted: December 8, 2017
I think you're right Dianne, The angle looks a little steep. It has actually improved from the previous video. I don't see the counter actions between the arm and wrist. You'r on the right track! Don't be discouraged!

Dianne
Posted: December 8, 2017
I can't help but think that my issue is that the wrist angle is too steep, or something in that area. If I could just put my finger on what the problem is, I won't have to go to arm vibrato, because I have worked remedially against the bout of the violin, yes, and it didn't transfer down to 1st position. I would like to have something I could try in 1st position to work on this. I haven't been able to find anything but an orange over @ VMC. Orange too big, and I don't think anything smaller would help my issue after I took it away. Please keep the ideas coming!

Janice Branley
Posted: December 7, 2017
Thanks for that link Beth.  I watched that video with great interest, it explains very clearly the different kinds of vibrato and I think I was doing what you describe as different motions cancelling each other out too.  I'll be practicing this again tomorrow using a mirror so I can check out what I'm doing.  

Beth Blackerby
Posted: December 7, 2017
Dianne,

Have you watched this video?


I address what you're doing. Although you aren't squeezing the neck, I describe the motion your doing and how it cancels out the vibrato movement. Let me know if it helps or not.



Vayia UK
Posted: December 7, 2017
A very quick thought from me with an idea to try: start on the pitch with a straight wrist, fall back to the low pitch by dropping the hand. Perhaps you have the wrist straight when you fall to the low pitch and then your wrist bends when you go up to the pitch? I hope that's clear... 


Janice Branley
Posted: December 7, 2017
Hi Dianne,

I am working on this exact issue too at the moment. As Christopher has said, I was determined to use only the hand vibrato and after months of practice I was even driven the other day to stop my wrist  wobbling by cutting up the inside of a paper roll and wrapping it around the wrist with tape.  Sounds odd, but it actually gave me the clue to the root of the issue which was, in order for my wrist to not wobble, my forearm just had to join in a bit.

 Then yesterday I found this video on the site here, it comes in two parts and for me has made an enormous difference.  What Mr Dick shows is the movement he is seeking, and he says how you achieve that is individual.  He's not saying anything goes, and clearly demonstrates every undesirable movement like rocking sideways etc, but in terms of wrist, hand arm he is open minded,  This is an amazing class --- 
(Workshop 2012) Vibrato Class by Bill Dick: part 1 & part 2

Dianne
Posted: December 6, 2017
Hi Bjørn, I tried the idea of the lowered thumb and it helped on some notes on some strings, but not on others. The thumb became a pivot, so the forearm was able to stabilize. I was very hopeful of that. In fact, it solved another problem that occurs, which is rocking too far above the note. (I rock back on the first note, but the forearm seems to pull my hand over the top of the note from then on.) But on the other notes/strings, it was back to an unstable wrist action, with moving forearm. But thank you for the idea.

Christopher, you might be right. I might be having a tendency to a hybrid vibrato.

An update:
Tonight I spent some time with Simon Fischer's warming up exercises for vibrato, and my forearm was not moving. I do these every day actually, and it wasn't until tonight that I realized that it was in pieces that the whole thing falls apart, and that could be because I exert too much effort. SF writes in WU that not more effort is required for a faster vibrato, just a narrower motion. So I am going to stick with what I am doing for now, and see if I can slow things down a bit in order to get the warming up exercises to translate into a piece or a scale.



Bjørn Larsen
Posted: December 6, 2017
Hi Dianne
I think that one of the difficulties about learning vibrato is that everyone's hand is different from everybody else's. So ou have to do a lot of experimenting with small changes in the way you are used to play. In your video it is difficult to see the placement of your left thumb, but I think you should try to move it a little more down under the fingerboard. That will allow you to get your base knuckles up, so your fingers will be more free to make the vibrato movement. I can see that when you play a descending scale, you raise your hand in order to reach with your fourth finger, and then drop back to the lower position when you use the other fingers. I have no idea if this is part of your troubles vith the forearm movement, but just an idea that came to me when I watched yout video. - Just keep experimenting.

Christopher Sinkule
Posted: December 6, 2017
If you’re like me then the problem is being adamant about using only wrist vibrato. For the longest I tried purely wrist vibrato and I always had that little wag in the wrist/arm. When I allowed myself to use arm vibrato I naturally settled into a combination of the two. I use purely arm on first finger, mostly wrist on second and third, and pinky depends on where I am on the fingerboard. If you haven’t, try letting yourself do arm vibrato, I know I was greatly surprised.